They've been brainwashed... or maybe you've been brainwashed? Claiming Arunachal because a princess married a Tibetan king a millennium ago is a bit far-fetched.
But if you want to take us on the subject of linguistics, fine. Chinese letters were never used in Lhasa, nor in Tawang. Rather, the Tibetan script derives a lot from the Brahmi script which in turn evolved from Devanagiri. Even it is said in the Tibetan traditional texts that Thonmi Sambhota was sent to India to create the Tibetan"alphabet".
So am I right to conclude that Devanagiri is closer to Tibetans than Chinese?
I've been brainwashed, or you've been brainwashed? Who claim Arunachal because a princess married a Tibetan king?
South Tibet (North Arunachal AND West Arunachal) is a part of Tibet due to the hundreds years of administration and cultural exchange among Tibetans, Monpas, Lhopas (Adis) and Deng (Mishmis). One of the evidences is why Tibetan people choose the Monpa boy - Cangyang Gyaco - who born from Tawang as 6th Dalai Lama.
I don't know why you mention Tibetan script's similarities to Devanagari because doing that can only lead to the following explainations:
-
Of course Tibetan script is a script inside the Brami scripts family, but it's not Devanagiri, never. Tibetan script is the testimony of the historical Buddhism impact on Tibet, and the glorious cultural developements between historical India and Tibet.
And that's the reason we Chinese people preserve not only language but also script. Unfortunately, India, not:
In China:
>Han Chinese use Chinese script;
>Mongols use traditional Mongolian script;
>Uyghurs use Kona Yeziq;
>Tibetan people use Tibetan script;
>Zhuang people use to use a variant of Chinese script (Sawndip), but Chinese government invented a new alphabet for them (similar to Thai Romanlization) because of Sawndip is so hard to learn that few Zhuang can use it;
>>(See, for their convience Chinese government even gave up the already exist varient of Chinese script!)
>Hmongs, Bai, Dong, Buyei... similar to the case of Zhuang;
>...
>>When we do research in Buddhism, we use Siddham.
In India or Indian-controlled areas:
>Hindis use Devanagari;
>Nepalis use Devanagari, not Nepal script or Mol script, etc.;
>Newaris use Devanagari, not Lantsa;
>Rongpas use Devanagari and Nepali language, not Rongke and Rongring;
>Adis use Devanagari, they had no chance to build their script under Indian pressure in 1950s~1970s;
>Sanskirt is also written in Devanagari, not Siddham!
>Assamese uses Nagari, oh that's really a surprise! Devanagari minus Deva! So likely that they can still use it becuase Nagari is too similar to Devanagari!
>Ponjabis use their own script? Oh, didn't see significant difference between it and Devanagari, except for change some circle under the line to polyline under the line.
Then we know that Chinese people has an opening mind and policy to minorities than India, also, a better cultural diversities than India.
matodurga:you can also provide a lot of strong evidence? We must believe that real, I believe the evidence. And your statement is wrong, you have deviated from the topic of your discussions, you are talking about, "McMahon Line" issue, rather than to discuss national political issues. Please do not deviate from the topic of discussion. If you have evidence, we ask you to list, otherwise we do not believe what you said.
From Emperor 秦始皇 to the Great Helmsman Mao Zedong, China has had a variety of uniting tyrants and a wide array of authoritarian ways to deal with minorities and regional languages.
I am a Tamil, but an Indian first. We don't use Devanagiri (I never learned it at school) but our own ancient script, Tamil, and Tamil is the official language in our state. Each state in India decides what the official language will be.
The princess I refer to is Princess Wensheng, whose marriage to a Tibetan king made Tibet a Chinese province during the Tang dynasty, some Chinese bloggers believe.
The major bone of contention is that if a country once acknowledged Chinese suzerainty (even for a short period of time), China should consider it as a part of her Empire for ever, and would automatically revive her claims on it even after a thousand years. Therefore Chinese do not consider the de facto independence of Tibet for hundreds of years as a valid argument.
This is called a collision course, India is not going to give up Arunachal Pradesh. Better India and China learn to live together peacefully.
matodurga, nice to meet you!
I am from Taiwan, which Taiwan is a total democracy China against the transformed communist China on the mainland. My best friend is a Tamil like you. We talked a lot about the world history.
And, we found that we did not know each other throughout. There are many biases and misunderstanding between our growing backgrounds. It's a normal situation that any different environments can happen.
The situation I see from Taiwan is that China inherited the country size of the last dynasty in 1911. At that time, the British occupied India. The British expended the northern part of India into China during the last dynasty of China, but China did not recognized it. After that, China experienced a revolution of democracy, two times of the world wars, and the revolution of the communist.
After India removed the power of the British, India inherited the country size that the British left. Therefore, there is a part of land which is not recognized well because of the Brithish invading history.
justicelogic: The argument is correct. matodurga,: I do not know your history, but I often went to visit China, I think China is a very welcoming country, Mao Tse-tung was a great man, he was the Chinese people out of oppression, out of poverty. You do not understand Chinese, you do not know Mao Tse-tung. As for the attribution of Tibet, as far as I know, from ancient China's Tang Dynasty, came into contact with, to the Yuan dynasty in China into a part of China, China's Yuan Dynasty of China after the end of the Ming Dynasty, but also belong to a country, to the Qing dynasty also, to the present-day China also, they are one country. Mao Zedong's Communist Party liberated Tibet and the Tibetan serfdom system of relief from the poor out, out of oppression, is real. You do not know anything, you are only in the negative to say, I hope you can also visit China to learn Chinese.
So I want to say: According to the history of China, the Tibet should belong to China, you have to say a lack of power.
Moreover, according to more information, I think "McMahon Line" The problem is there, it is by the British occupation of India, caused by invasion of China, the British left, India's continued occupation, rather than returned to China. Britain is a criminal who is wrong in India, India and China should become very good friends, not because the United Kingdom the two countries into enemies of the error Er Shi
Nice reading your post. Sorry for not replying earlier, have been rather busy. I appreciate the openness and politeness of your reply. There are indeed many differences of perception and interpretation of History.
I have read that in 1947, President Chiang Kai-shek in his book "China's Destiny and Chinese Economic Theory" listed Tibet, Mongolia, Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Burma and Vietnam as his country's lost territories. The logic, if I am correct is that if a country has once accepted Chinese rule, it is to remain Chinese forever. Please correct me if I’m wrong. By the way if you can explain to me why China does not claim Korea, which once acknowledged the suzerainty of the Qing dynasty, I would be grateful.
India has a different standpoint. Many countries were once part of Indian empires and kingdoms. Indian kingdoms and Indian Buddhism once flourished in Afghanistan. The conquest of Sri Lanka, even Sri Vijaya in Sumatra by Rajendra Chola in 1025 pushed further the limits of Indian influence. Closer to us even Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh and Burma were part of the British Indian Empire. But nobody in India claims those countries as Indian possessions.
Regarding Arunachal Pradesh, we rather see it as a practical issue. It has been administered by the British Indian Empire since 1914. In 1947, it became part of the Indian Union. The 1962 border war has been the result, again, of different perception and interpretation on each side of the border.
Geographically, the border line has the advantage of running along the crest of the High Himalayan Range which divides naturally the Tibetan plateau in the north from the sub-montane region in the south. Strategically, it is vital for India to keep the Chinese Army on its side of the Himalayas.
China and India have different views and different ways. It is easy to dismiss the other as inferior and to claim “My way is the best”. The basis of a democracy is when people “agree to disagree”. This brings peace in families, societies, countries and ultimately in the world.
Nice reading your reply! Thank you for your reply with sincerity. I appreciate the rational and equal attitude that have own my respect. I believe in that unselfish love and open-minded knowledge are the keys to peace and happiness. Sorry for my late reply. I spent some time to check with some historical data.
As you had mentioned a book that was published in 1947, President Chiang Kai-shek in his book "China's Destiny and Chinese Economic Theory" listed Tibet, Mongolia, Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Burma and Vietnam as his country's lost territories. That is a fact, not logic. He admitted that places were China’s lost territories because of the aggressive invaders of the British, Russia, Japan, French, Portugal, and more ones I missed here as you can check by yourself. We lost also our Chinese people who lived in those places. All peoples who were a part of our Chinese culture were then the slaves of other countries. At that time, Chinese people could have been like animals, but our democratic revolution was to save our country people from the last Chinese dynasty, emperors, autocracy, racism, and poor situation. Our country was built in 1912, but our country was torn apart by some selfish autocracies, fake governments organized by Japan and Russia. Therefore, regarding Arunachal Pradesh, we rather see it in a bigger picture. It has been invaded by the British Indian Empire since 1914. It just happened soon after 1911 while China was separated into pieces having civil wars. The British was like the robbers breaking into a house called China while China peoples were on fire. As big family peoples, we have connected cultural relationships for thousand years. Our democratic policy was to insist on the freedom of unequal treaty, democracy-for the people, of the people, by the people, the equality of all peoples in China, and the improving of the people’s living status. At that time, we were still struggling from surviving under the oppression of many great powers including the British. They took advantages from weak countries such like China and India. This is a fact and background during the period of time. Following Dr. Sun’s ideal, Chiang Kai-shek reunited most parts of Chinese peoples in 1928. The communist revolution started fiercely while our government reuniting a whole China and fighting with the warlords during 1926~1928. After China was reunited, our democracy could not afford our large military, which was about 2 million soldiers including the surrender warlords’ army. Soon after the reuniting of China, a two years war happened between our democracy and the warlords again with the scale of 1.4 million soldiers fighting. Our democracy won again, but Japan emperor took the northeast part of China during the Chinese civil war in 1931. The fighting between China and Japan began from this time. After the united China, the economic growing rate was more than 9% at average (1928~1938). During 1928~1938, our government defeated the communist troops and made them escape to the northwest China with only about 20 thousand soldiers left during 1934~1936. In 1937, Japan emperor could not help to occupy China and started an overall war for 8 years. At that time, Japan was well-known to have claimed that: “to occupy a whole China within 3 months”, and “to conquer the world, conquer China first.” But, China democracy resisted the invasion of Japan emperor alone for 6 years. We won in the war with other alliances in the last two years of the world war though. Chinese democracy had paid the prices of more than 30 million people’s lives to protect our home land from invaders. Millions of Chinese soldiers died in that war. And, it was the main factor to make China be very poor, and the communist force could take the power of China. Then, our democracy regained Taiwan back because of the Second World War, but lost the mainland of China in a civil war soon after. About 3.2 million soldiers died for protecting our democracy China from Japan emperor and the communist Russia. Our democracy finally struggles and settles down in Taiwan Island. What we believe in democratic society is to help each other with sincerer.
One crucial key point was from the invading of Japan since China helped the British emperor to defeat Japan emperor. The British had changed the attitude gradually to retreat her power from Asia. And, the peace treaty was talking about the territory issues and to dismiss unequal treaties to China. But, the communist wars happened too soon after the Second World War that many things were not worked out properly yet. One of Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s dreams were to carry out international justice in a democratic way to bring world peace.
If you want to be corrected by me, I suggest you to read about the Chinese democratic revolution in 1911 first. President Chiang Kai-shek is just a follower of Dr. Sun Yat-Sen. He said that the foundation of human civilization was based on helping to each other. Advanced countries should help other countries. President Chiang Kai-shek suggested this ideal after the WWII, and we have United Nations though. China democracy was kicked out from UN because China is no longer a democracy. The communist supported by Russia soviet took the whole China. And, China became one of the communist groups to spread out the communist ways with wars. That’s the main reason that we could not define the territory of China well until now.
Anyway, Chinese issue is rather complicated to reveal. It‘s the same when I tried to read India history. We see India were separated kingdoms and languages. They are really old regions with thousands years histories and cultures. So is China. Many thousands years ago, Buddhism is everywhere in Chinese cultures. During the World war II, President Chiang Kai-shek also flight to India and met Gandhi मोहनदास करमचंद गाँधी, who supports 真理（satya）,and非暴力（ahimsa）. President Chiang Kai-shek supports Gandhi. And, our democracy policy in China is to protect the complete of each indepenet people with freedom. At that time, India peoples also sought for the independence of India. India hoped to help the British to fight against Japan and ask for the freedom of India peoples. Both India and China had the same ideal to free peoples from the control of other emperors. But, they have different cultural and historical backgrounds. Based on the people’s policy of the democratic China, the government of President Chiang Kai-shek supported the Korean people’s freedom action during the WWII. The new government of Korea nowadays as a democracy was aided by the first democracy of Asia and had her temporary government office in Nanjin city of China. Korea democracy was born from Chinese democracy. Our democracy also believes that Tibetan should be a complete people and should not be divided by any international or national wars. They have the free human rights and wills to decide the future of his people. It is the same to the democracy of Korea. Therefore, if you said the south of Tibet should be a part of India because of the reason of a geographical and military advantage, I do not believe that our respected Gandhi shall agree with this. If India or China do that to separate a people, there is no difference between a democracy and an emperor. Dr. Sun Yat Sen believes that Tibet was part of China for thousands of years cultural and racial links, and the most importance that he believes that a democratic China should bring Tibetan people happiness, freedom, human dignity, economic development, and all good things you now have in a democratic India. We all agree why Tibet was seperated away from China was because of the British invasion at first, right? After that, Tibetan people was seperated into pieces. And then, the WWII happens. The communist revolution comes soon after the end of WWII. Therefore, Tibetan people is not united and making her own decision of people’s future, right? The communist is not democracy. The first democracy of Asia, Chinese democracy is struggling in Taiwan now. And, the communist China believes that they must free the poor farmers and lower class of Tibetan people. Tibetan people have classes, and the communist must save the poor people from the oppression of the noble class. How do you think about this?
All human beings were from Africa ancestors, and from a specific kind of fish, and the first life on Earth. Of course, we are in a big family.
Dear Justicelogic,
Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your references to Dr. Sun Yat-sen and the theory of evolution ;) Taiwan is truly the only real democracy in the Chinese speaking world. Maybe R.O.C is the future of China?
I understand that the recent past has shaped China – as well as India – not always for the better: Opium Wars, unequal treaties, democratic aspirations confronted with civil war, military aggression, separation between P.R.C. and R.O.C. After a troubled period, now China is rising.
India had to face colonial conquests, an Independence accompanied by the partition of the country. It is a democracy since 1947 and has faced four wars (1947, 1965, 1971, 1999) with turbulent neighbour Pakistan and one with Communist China (1962). Tonight is the 38th anniversary of the 1971 air attack by the Pakistan Air Force. Despite hostile neighbours, India too is rising, in its own way.
Keeping the People’s Liberation Army on their side of the Himalayas would not have Mahatma Gandhi’s approval, you seem to say. Now would R.O.C. have given Kinmen and Matsu back to PRC because it would have been fair (or logic)? Strategically, Kinmen and Matsu had to stay under R.O.C jursidiction so that Taiwan could remain free.
You have understood, I am not a great fan of Gandhi myself. He sure had immense qualities, but his morally guided policies and international shortsightedness have led the country to the partition. His Appeal to Every Britton on 4th of July 1940 is appalling and reveals a (little-known) aspect of his personality. Here is an excerpt (emphasis is mine)
I appeal for cessation of hostilities, not because you are too exhausted to fight, but because war is bad in essence. You want to kill Nazim. You will never kill it by its indifferent adoption. Your soldiers are doing the same work of destruction as the Germans. The only difference is that perhaps yours are not as thorough as the Germans. If that be so, yours will soon acquire the same thoroughness as theirs, if not much greater. On no other condition can you win the war. In other words, you will have to be more ruthless than the Nazis. No cause, however just, can warrant the indiscriminate slaughter that is going on minute by minute. I suggest that a cause that demands the inhumanities that are being perpetrated today cannot be called just. I do not want Britain to be defeated, nor do I want her to be victorious in a trial of brute strength, whether expressed through the muscle or the brain. Your muscular bravery is an established fact. Need you demonstrate that your brain is also as unrivalled in destructive power as your muscle? I hope you do not wish to enter into such an undignified competition with the Nazis. I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldier. I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them.
I sincerely hope that he didn’t send to President Chiang Kai-shek a similar Appeal to Every Chinese! Gandhi fasted in 1921 for the Khilafat movement, then for the Muslim League, and again in 1947 so that Pakistan would receive an equal share of the gold of Bank of India (even though its population was 10% of that of India)! The same year, President Chiang Kai-shek wisely secured the gold of the bank of China and took it to Taiwan, alongside with the treasures of the National Palace Museum.
I still don’t understand what is the logic behind considering Vietnam or Tibet as a part of China and not Korea. Is it based on the opinion of Dr Sun Yat-sen or others? On History, on political relations, treaties? Please clarify.
Kinmen and Matsu had to stay under R.O.C jursidiction because ROC claim the who China, incl. SOUTH TIBET.
And it's right that Tamils do not use Devanagari, and that's because there's Sri Lanka. If India ask Tamils use Devanagari Tamils will ask their homeland to be a part of Sri Lanka. Don't think Indians really like you to use Tamil script. And Tibetans in India use Tibetan script because Tibetans in China use Tibetan script, and India wants to have a compete to China to show they're "better". Why do I say that? See what Chinese do and then you know.
Mongols in China use Mongolian script NOT because of Mongolia - Mongols in Mongolia use Russian script.
Uyghurs, Kazaks and Kirgizs in China use Kona Yeziq NOT because of Kazakstan and Kirgizstan - Uyghurs, Kazaks and Kirgizs use Russian script.
And Tibetans in China using Tibetan script in computer since 1985 NOT because of India - at that time Unicode Tibetan had not born and 14e Dalai Lama's fellow was only able to use Wylie transliteration in Computer (oh, no, Dalai Lama's fellow didn't use computer at that time: How can Indian government give such a high-tech to minorities? They'd rather offer those to Hindis first).
HOW ABOUT INDIAN GOVERNMENT? Nepal gave up Lantsa and then India gave up, too.
CONCLUSION: Whether Chinese use (Chinese script, Tibetan script, Mongolian script, etc) are not influences by what other country use BUT Indian government always see what other country (except Pakistan) use to determine whether to allow minorities using their own script.
Thanks for not replying my point, 虞海. Joining Sri Lanka! In South India, Andhra Pradesh uses Telugu script, Karnataka uses Kannada, Kerala uses Malayalam just as Bengal in the north uses Bengali or Orissa uses Oriya, etc... I'm not a linguist nor a philologist, but please, check your facts before making ludicrous statements...
Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your questions that make me see how much the communist China covered and sent twisted information about China to this realistic world.
I simply now answer you again about your most interested issue of Korea, Tibet, Vietnam.
First of all, I must ask you where you found the "LOGIC" behind considering Vietnam or Tibet as a part of China and not Korea. I have never known PRC or ROC considering Vietnam is a part of China so far.
Second, where did you find the logic that Tibet is a part of India? Why should India take Tibet as a part of India? Do you know why the communist China attacked India in 1962?
As you asked as following:
I still don’t understand what is the logic behind considering Vietnam or Tibet as a part of China and not Korea. Is it based on the opinion of Dr Sun Yat-sen or others? On History, on political relations, treaties? Please clarify.
Answer:
Historical part:
"Korea and Vietnam were kingdoms. Unfortunately, Tibet was a part of China until India insisted that Tibet was of India. Even the British, they just dared to separate Tibet people during China having a democratic revolution war. For thousand years, Chinese peoples and cultures live there and forming their own cultures. It is like India also having different dialects. If you compare with the pronunciations of Chinese dialects, you may find historical links between them. Even Japanese, you may find links. Or even, you can easily see how different between Indian people and Chinese peoples including Tibetan by your eyes. These cannot cheat."
Political relations:
“Historically, Tibet was a part of China territory. Politically, China officers governed the whole Tibet area before the British came into Tibet. China is not like Indian kingdom system. Indian was ruled by a white man tribe from Europe, and spreads out a kind of religion and system to unite the very different kingdoms like Tamil peoples. China dynasties were very powerful and united political organizations. We have a united language and word system since more than 3 thousand years ago. Before this first empire, they had different political and language systems and cultures, which is similar to federal unions. All tribes in China tried to dominate the center power of Chinese culture. After the emperor age, all tribes surround or inside China emperor tries to take the central part of China and claims that their tribe presents itself as China. So does Vietnam. Vietnam was proud of its present as the heritage of Chinese culture while China was taken over by the north tribe of China from time to time. But, Vietnam and Korea was not a part of China territory during the last dynasty of China. Even when the China democracy won the Second World War, Vietnam remains an independent country. The French people gave up ruling Vietnam. And, the last dynasty admitted China lost Vietnam because of a war between China and France. But, the case of Tibet is different, the British took Tibet was not formally admitted by the last dynasty of China. It was not confirmed by our democracy and was a stolen territory from China by the British. That was a part of reasonable reasons that why the British helped Japan to block our transportation work during the resistant war to Japanese invading in the beginning of the Second World War. Emperors at that time are ambitious and selfish as I observe. Therefore, as the British gave up her ruling over Tibet, it does not make any sense that India should take Tibet as a part of India again. A nation should not be an emperor. Vietnam and Korea was taken by the French, and Japan. While Japan occupying Korea and Vietnam, Korea king asked for help from China. But, Tibet was not like Korea and Japan. In fact, Tibet indeed was and should be a part of China. South Tibet, Myanmar, Thailand were stolen by the British, and the British is gone. Why should India still keep Southern Tibet, and separate their people there?”
These are my answers to your questions as above.
As to Kinmen and Matsu of our democracy, those two islands are never a part of the communist China. That’s different case to Tibet and India. The communist tried to terminate China democracy, but failed. We won battles on our own lands including Kinmen and Matsu. Why should R.O.C. return them to the communist China? That is the communist China shall return the mainland of China back to R.O.C if she can. Hopefully, I wish you could read and think about the thoughts and historical evidences at that time again. You shall see how much the great man “Gandhi” had done for India. China democracy had struggled and paid tremendous price to earn the freedom of Chinese people from the oppression of emperors. But, our China democracy still failed and struggling in a small island now. How lucky India can be democratic with the most parts of India. But, Tibet is not the land of India. The independence of Muslim Pakistan is because of the freedom of religions, nothing is perfect as you suppose though.
There is only my point of views and imagination as below:
As we see in a total democratic society, India, China, and most of the third world countries are overacted in nationalism because of the oppressed situation and educated ways. People put too much stress on having a bigger and stronger nation instead of truth and real happiness of all human beings. A nationalist murdered a saint, Gandhi, and still was proud of his murdering. That’s a nationalist. What’s democracy? Democracy is to have men human rights, free wills, communication ways, peace, and happiness. Why China attacked India? India does not want to give up what the British left. I agree with you that if India resists the spreading of the communist. But, India took the wrong mountains. There were still high mountains along the bottom of the south Tibet. That’s the original boundary of India before the British came to make Indian be slaves. Mentally, Indian people reasonably shall revenge after India got industrialized and strong someday. The British also knows it. Do you know why Mongolians spoke Russian and Russian troops were there? The emperors separated a big country like India or China, they torn their peoples into small pieces first. The first industrialized country was the British, so the British got a powerful weapon to be a great emperor first. And then, the western European countries including France, tried to expand themselves. And, Germany joined the wars of resources. Robbing and revenge comes. Two times of world war happened. And, the Soviet Russian came up with industrialization and a kind of ruling way to cover her emperor. Russia is big, so its power of industrialization is big of course. The communist ideologies starts fires and democratic unions put out fires. They are also afraid of the industrialization of tremendous India and China. And, poor peoples are fooled around by unpractical dreams of nationalism now and communism before. And then, the communist way was testified as a tragic joke. But, the emperor leftover remains. It has formed China and India to eager for the next steps of being greater emperors after a total industrialized future. China and India are waiting behind Russia, Japan, Germany, and the British. The father of Chinese democracy, Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s ideal is to build a peaceful country without wars and boundaries between the people. That’s not the Russian’s emperor way of communist. It’s not to force anyone to be a nationalist. Dr. Sun’s first job was a doctor curing the disease of the poor people. He believes that the power of human evolution is from helping to each other and love. That’s the same to the essence of Gandhi’s deeds. Only LOVE can sacrifice oneself and bring happiness to all others. The separation of Tibet, Pakistan, or my lovely India or China is temporal. As time goes by, God will judge. People must get to know more about each other and learn more about love. We must help each other to survive on this tough environment, Earth. This world eventually will be into a one big family. Nations shall be a meaningless thing on earth. Revenge only brings revenge. God knows if He must stop us from killing each other with a final judge. We are all the same. Just do a warm and right thing before we can!
Comments
matodurga, on November 11, said:
They've been brainwashed... or maybe you've been brainwashed? Claiming Arunachal because a princess married a Tibetan king a millennium ago is a bit far-fetched.
But if you want to take us on the subject of linguistics, fine. Chinese letters were never used in Lhasa, nor in Tawang. Rather, the Tibetan script derives a lot from the Brahmi script which in turn evolved from Devanagiri. Even it is said in the Tibetan traditional texts that Thonmi Sambhota was sent to India to create the Tibetan"alphabet".
So am I right to conclude that Devanagiri is closer to Tibetans than Chinese?
虞海, on November 12, said:
I've been brainwashed, or you've been brainwashed? Who claim Arunachal because a princess married a Tibetan king?
South Tibet (North Arunachal AND West Arunachal) is a part of Tibet due to the hundreds years of administration and cultural exchange among Tibetans, Monpas, Lhopas (Adis) and Deng (Mishmis). One of the evidences is why Tibetan people choose the Monpa boy - Cangyang Gyaco - who born from Tawang as 6th Dalai Lama.
I don't know why you mention Tibetan script's similarities to Devanagari because doing that can only lead to the following explainations:
-
Of course Tibetan script is a script inside the Brami scripts family, but it's not Devanagiri, never. Tibetan script is the testimony of the historical Buddhism impact on Tibet, and the glorious cultural developements between historical India and Tibet.
And that's the reason we Chinese people preserve not only language but also script. Unfortunately, India, not:
zg163, on November 12, said:
matodurga:you can also provide a lot of strong evidence? We must believe that real, I believe the evidence. And your statement is wrong, you have deviated from the topic of your discussions, you are talking about, "McMahon Line" issue, rather than to discuss national political issues. Please do not deviate from the topic of discussion. If you have evidence, we ask you to list, otherwise we do not believe what you said.
Hope that we can discuss a satisfactory
matodurga, on November 12, said:
From Emperor 秦始皇 to the Great Helmsman Mao Zedong, China has had a variety of uniting tyrants and a wide array of authoritarian ways to deal with minorities and regional languages.
I am a Tamil, but an Indian first. We don't use Devanagiri (I never learned it at school) but our own ancient script, Tamil, and Tamil is the official language in our state. Each state in India decides what the official language will be.
The princess I refer to is Princess Wensheng, whose marriage to a Tibetan king made Tibet a Chinese province during the Tang dynasty, some Chinese bloggers believe.
The major bone of contention is that if a country once acknowledged Chinese suzerainty (even for a short period of time), China should consider it as a part of her Empire for ever, and would automatically revive her claims on it even after a thousand years. Therefore Chinese do not consider the de facto independence of Tibet for hundreds of years as a valid argument.
This is called a collision course, India is not going to give up Arunachal Pradesh. Better India and China learn to live together peacefully.
justicelogic, on November 14, said:
matodurga, nice to meet you! I am from Taiwan, which Taiwan is a total democracy China against the transformed communist China on the mainland. My best friend is a Tamil like you. We talked a lot about the world history. And, we found that we did not know each other throughout. There are many biases and misunderstanding between our growing backgrounds. It's a normal situation that any different environments can happen. The situation I see from Taiwan is that China inherited the country size of the last dynasty in 1911. At that time, the British occupied India. The British expended the northern part of India into China during the last dynasty of China, but China did not recognized it. After that, China experienced a revolution of democracy, two times of the world wars, and the revolution of the communist. After India removed the power of the British, India inherited the country size that the British left. Therefore, there is a part of land which is not recognized well because of the Brithish invading history.
Peace~
zg163, on November 15, said:
justicelogic: The argument is correct. matodurga,: I do not know your history, but I often went to visit China, I think China is a very welcoming country, Mao Tse-tung was a great man, he was the Chinese people out of oppression, out of poverty. You do not understand Chinese, you do not know Mao Tse-tung. As for the attribution of Tibet, as far as I know, from ancient China's Tang Dynasty, came into contact with, to the Yuan dynasty in China into a part of China, China's Yuan Dynasty of China after the end of the Ming Dynasty, but also belong to a country, to the Qing dynasty also, to the present-day China also, they are one country. Mao Zedong's Communist Party liberated Tibet and the Tibetan serfdom system of relief from the poor out, out of oppression, is real. You do not know anything, you are only in the negative to say, I hope you can also visit China to learn Chinese.
So I want to say: According to the history of China, the Tibet should belong to China, you have to say a lack of power.
Moreover, according to more information, I think "McMahon Line" The problem is there, it is by the British occupation of India, caused by invasion of China, the British left, India's continued occupation, rather than returned to China. Britain is a criminal who is wrong in India, India and China should become very good friends, not because the United Kingdom the two countries into enemies of the error Er Shi
justicelogic, on November 15, said:
This is about the background of China history:
(There is a very little part of historical map talking about the invading of the British.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyVhkjELo-Q&NR=1
justicelogic, on November 16, said:
http://www.youtube.com/group/zhongguoguomindang
外蒙古是中國
虞海, on November 16, said:
藏南同胞正在购买鸦片，可能是景颇（Jingpho,印称“新福”,Singpho）族。吸食图。
matodurga, on November 20, said:
Dear Justicelogic,
Nice reading your post. Sorry for not replying earlier, have been rather busy. I appreciate the openness and politeness of your reply. There are indeed many differences of perception and interpretation of History.
I have read that in 1947, President Chiang Kai-shek in his book "China's Destiny and Chinese Economic Theory" listed Tibet, Mongolia, Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Burma and Vietnam as his country's lost territories. The logic, if I am correct is that if a country has once accepted Chinese rule, it is to remain Chinese forever. Please correct me if I’m wrong. By the way if you can explain to me why China does not claim Korea, which once acknowledged the suzerainty of the Qing dynasty, I would be grateful.
India has a different standpoint. Many countries were once part of Indian empires and kingdoms. Indian kingdoms and Indian Buddhism once flourished in Afghanistan. The conquest of Sri Lanka, even Sri Vijaya in Sumatra by Rajendra Chola in 1025 pushed further the limits of Indian influence. Closer to us even Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh and Burma were part of the British Indian Empire. But nobody in India claims those countries as Indian possessions.
Regarding Arunachal Pradesh, we rather see it as a practical issue. It has been administered by the British Indian Empire since 1914. In 1947, it became part of the Indian Union. The 1962 border war has been the result, again, of different perception and interpretation on each side of the border.
Geographically, the border line has the advantage of running along the crest of the High Himalayan Range which divides naturally the Tibetan plateau in the north from the sub-montane region in the south. Strategically, it is vital for India to keep the Chinese Army on its side of the Himalayas.
China and India have different views and different ways. It is easy to dismiss the other as inferior and to claim “My way is the best”. The basis of a democracy is when people “agree to disagree”. This brings peace in families, societies, countries and ultimately in the world.
In Peace~*
wkh0000, on November 21, said:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/28269987
justicelogic, on November 26, said:
Dear Matodurga,
Nice reading your reply! Thank you for your reply with sincerity. I appreciate the rational and equal attitude that have own my respect. I believe in that unselfish love and open-minded knowledge are the keys to peace and happiness. Sorry for my late reply. I spent some time to check with some historical data.
As you had mentioned a book that was published in 1947, President Chiang Kai-shek in his book "China's Destiny and Chinese Economic Theory" listed Tibet, Mongolia, Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Burma and Vietnam as his country's lost territories. That is a fact, not logic. He admitted that places were China’s lost territories because of the aggressive invaders of the British, Russia, Japan, French, Portugal, and more ones I missed here as you can check by yourself. We lost also our Chinese people who lived in those places. All peoples who were a part of our Chinese culture were then the slaves of other countries. At that time, Chinese people could have been like animals, but our democratic revolution was to save our country people from the last Chinese dynasty, emperors, autocracy, racism, and poor situation. Our country was built in 1912, but our country was torn apart by some selfish autocracies, fake governments organized by Japan and Russia. Therefore, regarding Arunachal Pradesh, we rather see it in a bigger picture. It has been invaded by the British Indian Empire since 1914. It just happened soon after 1911 while China was separated into pieces having civil wars. The British was like the robbers breaking into a house called China while China peoples were on fire. As big family peoples, we have connected cultural relationships for thousand years. Our democratic policy was to insist on the freedom of unequal treaty, democracy-for the people, of the people, by the people, the equality of all peoples in China, and the improving of the people’s living status. At that time, we were still struggling from surviving under the oppression of many great powers including the British. They took advantages from weak countries such like China and India. This is a fact and background during the period of time. Following Dr. Sun’s ideal, Chiang Kai-shek reunited most parts of Chinese peoples in 1928. The communist revolution started fiercely while our government reuniting a whole China and fighting with the warlords during 1926~1928. After China was reunited, our democracy could not afford our large military, which was about 2 million soldiers including the surrender warlords’ army. Soon after the reuniting of China, a two years war happened between our democracy and the warlords again with the scale of 1.4 million soldiers fighting. Our democracy won again, but Japan emperor took the northeast part of China during the Chinese civil war in 1931. The fighting between China and Japan began from this time. After the united China, the economic growing rate was more than 9% at average (1928~1938). During 1928~1938, our government defeated the communist troops and made them escape to the northwest China with only about 20 thousand soldiers left during 1934~1936. In 1937, Japan emperor could not help to occupy China and started an overall war for 8 years. At that time, Japan was well-known to have claimed that: “to occupy a whole China within 3 months”, and “to conquer the world, conquer China first.” But, China democracy resisted the invasion of Japan emperor alone for 6 years. We won in the war with other alliances in the last two years of the world war though. Chinese democracy had paid the prices of more than 30 million people’s lives to protect our home land from invaders. Millions of Chinese soldiers died in that war. And, it was the main factor to make China be very poor, and the communist force could take the power of China. Then, our democracy regained Taiwan back because of the Second World War, but lost the mainland of China in a civil war soon after. About 3.2 million soldiers died for protecting our democracy China from Japan emperor and the communist Russia. Our democracy finally struggles and settles down in Taiwan Island. What we believe in democratic society is to help each other with sincerer.
One crucial key point was from the invading of Japan since China helped the British emperor to defeat Japan emperor. The British had changed the attitude gradually to retreat her power from Asia. And, the peace treaty was talking about the territory issues and to dismiss unequal treaties to China. But, the communist wars happened too soon after the Second World War that many things were not worked out properly yet. One of Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s dreams were to carry out international justice in a democratic way to bring world peace.
If you want to be corrected by me, I suggest you to read about the Chinese democratic revolution in 1911 first. President Chiang Kai-shek is just a follower of Dr. Sun Yat-Sen. He said that the foundation of human civilization was based on helping to each other. Advanced countries should help other countries. President Chiang Kai-shek suggested this ideal after the WWII, and we have United Nations though. China democracy was kicked out from UN because China is no longer a democracy. The communist supported by Russia soviet took the whole China. And, China became one of the communist groups to spread out the communist ways with wars. That’s the main reason that we could not define the territory of China well until now.
Anyway, Chinese issue is rather complicated to reveal. It‘s the same when I tried to read India history. We see India were separated kingdoms and languages. They are really old regions with thousands years histories and cultures. So is China. Many thousands years ago, Buddhism is everywhere in Chinese cultures. During the World war II, President Chiang Kai-shek also flight to India and met Gandhi मोहनदास करमचंद गाँधी, who supports 真理（satya）,and非暴力（ahimsa）. President Chiang Kai-shek supports Gandhi. And, our democracy policy in China is to protect the complete of each indepenet people with freedom. At that time, India peoples also sought for the independence of India. India hoped to help the British to fight against Japan and ask for the freedom of India peoples. Both India and China had the same ideal to free peoples from the control of other emperors. But, they have different cultural and historical backgrounds. Based on the people’s policy of the democratic China, the government of President Chiang Kai-shek supported the Korean people’s freedom action during the WWII. The new government of Korea nowadays as a democracy was aided by the first democracy of Asia and had her temporary government office in Nanjin city of China. Korea democracy was born from Chinese democracy. Our democracy also believes that Tibetan should be a complete people and should not be divided by any international or national wars. They have the free human rights and wills to decide the future of his people. It is the same to the democracy of Korea. Therefore, if you said the south of Tibet should be a part of India because of the reason of a geographical and military advantage, I do not believe that our respected Gandhi shall agree with this. If India or China do that to separate a people, there is no difference between a democracy and an emperor. Dr. Sun Yat Sen believes that Tibet was part of China for thousands of years cultural and racial links, and the most importance that he believes that a democratic China should bring Tibetan people happiness, freedom, human dignity, economic development, and all good things you now have in a democratic India. We all agree why Tibet was seperated away from China was because of the British invasion at first, right? After that, Tibetan people was seperated into pieces. And then, the WWII happens. The communist revolution comes soon after the end of WWII. Therefore, Tibetan people is not united and making her own decision of people’s future, right? The communist is not democracy. The first democracy of Asia, Chinese democracy is struggling in Taiwan now. And, the communist China believes that they must free the poor farmers and lower class of Tibetan people. Tibetan people have classes, and the communist must save the poor people from the oppression of the noble class. How do you think about this?
All human beings were from Africa ancestors, and from a specific kind of fish, and the first life on Earth. Of course, we are in a big family.
In peace,
matodurga, on December 3, said:
Dear Justicelogic, Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your references to Dr. Sun Yat-sen and the theory of evolution ;) Taiwan is truly the only real democracy in the Chinese speaking world. Maybe R.O.C is the future of China?
I understand that the recent past has shaped China – as well as India – not always for the better: Opium Wars, unequal treaties, democratic aspirations confronted with civil war, military aggression, separation between P.R.C. and R.O.C. After a troubled period, now China is rising.
India had to face colonial conquests, an Independence accompanied by the partition of the country. It is a democracy since 1947 and has faced four wars (1947, 1965, 1971, 1999) with turbulent neighbour Pakistan and one with Communist China (1962). Tonight is the 38th anniversary of the 1971 air attack by the Pakistan Air Force. Despite hostile neighbours, India too is rising, in its own way.
Keeping the People’s Liberation Army on their side of the Himalayas would not have Mahatma Gandhi’s approval, you seem to say. Now would R.O.C. have given Kinmen and Matsu back to PRC because it would have been fair (or logic)? Strategically, Kinmen and Matsu had to stay under R.O.C jursidiction so that Taiwan could remain free.
You have understood, I am not a great fan of Gandhi myself. He sure had immense qualities, but his morally guided policies and international shortsightedness have led the country to the partition. His Appeal to Every Britton on 4th of July 1940 is appalling and reveals a (little-known) aspect of his personality. Here is an excerpt (emphasis is mine)
I appeal for cessation of hostilities, not because you are too exhausted to fight, but because war is bad in essence. You want to kill Nazim. You will never kill it by its indifferent adoption. Your soldiers are doing the same work of destruction as the Germans. The only difference is that perhaps yours are not as thorough as the Germans. If that be so, yours will soon acquire the same thoroughness as theirs, if not much greater. On no other condition can you win the war. In other words, you will have to be more ruthless than the Nazis. No cause, however just, can warrant the indiscriminate slaughter that is going on minute by minute. I suggest that a cause that demands the inhumanities that are being perpetrated today cannot be called just. I do not want Britain to be defeated, nor do I want her to be victorious in a trial of brute strength, whether expressed through the muscle or the brain. Your muscular bravery is an established fact. Need you demonstrate that your brain is also as unrivalled in destructive power as your muscle? I hope you do not wish to enter into such an undignified competition with the Nazis. I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldier. I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them.
I sincerely hope that he didn’t send to President Chiang Kai-shek a similar Appeal to Every Chinese! Gandhi fasted in 1921 for the Khilafat movement, then for the Muslim League, and again in 1947 so that Pakistan would receive an equal share of the gold of Bank of India (even though its population was 10% of that of India)! The same year, President Chiang Kai-shek wisely secured the gold of the bank of China and took it to Taiwan, alongside with the treasures of the National Palace Museum.
I still don’t understand what is the logic behind considering Vietnam or Tibet as a part of China and not Korea. Is it based on the opinion of Dr Sun Yat-sen or others? On History, on political relations, treaties? Please clarify.
With regards from India
bcnsunny, on December 6, said:
If you are a fellow southern Tibet, we ask you a correct understanding of history, to find the right historical evidence to prove that
虞海, on December 6, said:
Kinmen and Matsu had to stay under R.O.C jursidiction because ROC claim the who China, incl. SOUTH TIBET.
And it's right that Tamils do not use Devanagari, and that's because there's Sri Lanka. If India ask Tamils use Devanagari Tamils will ask their homeland to be a part of Sri Lanka. Don't think Indians really like you to use Tamil script. And Tibetans in India use Tibetan script because Tibetans in China use Tibetan script, and India wants to have a compete to China to show they're "better". Why do I say that? See what Chinese do and then you know.
Mongols in China use Mongolian script NOT because of Mongolia - Mongols in Mongolia use Russian script.
Uyghurs, Kazaks and Kirgizs in China use Kona Yeziq NOT because of Kazakstan and Kirgizstan - Uyghurs, Kazaks and Kirgizs use Russian script.
And Tibetans in China using Tibetan script in computer since 1985 NOT because of India - at that time Unicode Tibetan had not born and 14e Dalai Lama's fellow was only able to use Wylie transliteration in Computer (oh, no, Dalai Lama's fellow didn't use computer at that time: How can Indian government give such a high-tech to minorities? They'd rather offer those to Hindis first).
HOW ABOUT INDIAN GOVERNMENT? Nepal gave up Lantsa and then India gave up, too.
CONCLUSION: Whether Chinese use (Chinese script, Tibetan script, Mongolian script, etc) are not influences by what other country use BUT Indian government always see what other country (except Pakistan) use to determine whether to allow minorities using their own script.
matodurga, on December 6, said:
Thanks for not replying my point, 虞海. Joining Sri Lanka! In South India, Andhra Pradesh uses Telugu script, Karnataka uses Kannada, Kerala uses Malayalam just as Bengal in the north uses Bengali or Orissa uses Oriya, etc... I'm not a linguist nor a philologist, but please, check your facts before making ludicrous statements...
虞海, on December 7, said:
Well, then, India has diversity. But that's limited. In India all scripts are derived from Brahmi.
By the way, matodurga, what's "not replying my point", anyway?
justicelogic, on December 8, said:
Dear Matodurga,
Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your questions that make me see how much the communist China covered and sent twisted information about China to this realistic world.
I simply now answer you again about your most interested issue of Korea, Tibet, Vietnam.
First of all, I must ask you where you found the "LOGIC" behind considering Vietnam or Tibet as a part of China and not Korea. I have never known PRC or ROC considering Vietnam is a part of China so far.
Second, where did you find the logic that Tibet is a part of India? Why should India take Tibet as a part of India? Do you know why the communist China attacked India in 1962? As you asked as following: I still don’t understand what is the logic behind considering Vietnam or Tibet as a part of China and not Korea. Is it based on the opinion of Dr Sun Yat-sen or others? On History, on political relations, treaties? Please clarify. Answer: Historical part: "Korea and Vietnam were kingdoms. Unfortunately, Tibet was a part of China until India insisted that Tibet was of India. Even the British, they just dared to separate Tibet people during China having a democratic revolution war. For thousand years, Chinese peoples and cultures live there and forming their own cultures. It is like India also having different dialects. If you compare with the pronunciations of Chinese dialects, you may find historical links between them. Even Japanese, you may find links. Or even, you can easily see how different between Indian people and Chinese peoples including Tibetan by your eyes. These cannot cheat."
Political relations: “Historically, Tibet was a part of China territory. Politically, China officers governed the whole Tibet area before the British came into Tibet. China is not like Indian kingdom system. Indian was ruled by a white man tribe from Europe, and spreads out a kind of religion and system to unite the very different kingdoms like Tamil peoples. China dynasties were very powerful and united political organizations. We have a united language and word system since more than 3 thousand years ago. Before this first empire, they had different political and language systems and cultures, which is similar to federal unions. All tribes in China tried to dominate the center power of Chinese culture. After the emperor age, all tribes surround or inside China emperor tries to take the central part of China and claims that their tribe presents itself as China. So does Vietnam. Vietnam was proud of its present as the heritage of Chinese culture while China was taken over by the north tribe of China from time to time. But, Vietnam and Korea was not a part of China territory during the last dynasty of China. Even when the China democracy won the Second World War, Vietnam remains an independent country. The French people gave up ruling Vietnam. And, the last dynasty admitted China lost Vietnam because of a war between China and France. But, the case of Tibet is different, the British took Tibet was not formally admitted by the last dynasty of China. It was not confirmed by our democracy and was a stolen territory from China by the British. That was a part of reasonable reasons that why the British helped Japan to block our transportation work during the resistant war to Japanese invading in the beginning of the Second World War. Emperors at that time are ambitious and selfish as I observe. Therefore, as the British gave up her ruling over Tibet, it does not make any sense that India should take Tibet as a part of India again. A nation should not be an emperor. Vietnam and Korea was taken by the French, and Japan. While Japan occupying Korea and Vietnam, Korea king asked for help from China. But, Tibet was not like Korea and Japan. In fact, Tibet indeed was and should be a part of China. South Tibet, Myanmar, Thailand were stolen by the British, and the British is gone. Why should India still keep Southern Tibet, and separate their people there?”
These are my answers to your questions as above.
As to Kinmen and Matsu of our democracy, those two islands are never a part of the communist China. That’s different case to Tibet and India. The communist tried to terminate China democracy, but failed. We won battles on our own lands including Kinmen and Matsu. Why should R.O.C. return them to the communist China? That is the communist China shall return the mainland of China back to R.O.C if she can. Hopefully, I wish you could read and think about the thoughts and historical evidences at that time again. You shall see how much the great man “Gandhi” had done for India. China democracy had struggled and paid tremendous price to earn the freedom of Chinese people from the oppression of emperors. But, our China democracy still failed and struggling in a small island now. How lucky India can be democratic with the most parts of India. But, Tibet is not the land of India. The independence of Muslim Pakistan is because of the freedom of religions, nothing is perfect as you suppose though. There is only my point of views and imagination as below: As we see in a total democratic society, India, China, and most of the third world countries are overacted in nationalism because of the oppressed situation and educated ways. People put too much stress on having a bigger and stronger nation instead of truth and real happiness of all human beings. A nationalist murdered a saint, Gandhi, and still was proud of his murdering. That’s a nationalist. What’s democracy? Democracy is to have men human rights, free wills, communication ways, peace, and happiness. Why China attacked India? India does not want to give up what the British left. I agree with you that if India resists the spreading of the communist. But, India took the wrong mountains. There were still high mountains along the bottom of the south Tibet. That’s the original boundary of India before the British came to make Indian be slaves. Mentally, Indian people reasonably shall revenge after India got industrialized and strong someday. The British also knows it. Do you know why Mongolians spoke Russian and Russian troops were there? The emperors separated a big country like India or China, they torn their peoples into small pieces first. The first industrialized country was the British, so the British got a powerful weapon to be a great emperor first. And then, the western European countries including France, tried to expand themselves. And, Germany joined the wars of resources. Robbing and revenge comes. Two times of world war happened. And, the Soviet Russian came up with industrialization and a kind of ruling way to cover her emperor. Russia is big, so its power of industrialization is big of course. The communist ideologies starts fires and democratic unions put out fires. They are also afraid of the industrialization of tremendous India and China. And, poor peoples are fooled around by unpractical dreams of nationalism now and communism before. And then, the communist way was testified as a tragic joke. But, the emperor leftover remains. It has formed China and India to eager for the next steps of being greater emperors after a total industrialized future. China and India are waiting behind Russia, Japan, Germany, and the British. The father of Chinese democracy, Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s ideal is to build a peaceful country without wars and boundaries between the people. That’s not the Russian’s emperor way of communist. It’s not to force anyone to be a nationalist. Dr. Sun’s first job was a doctor curing the disease of the poor people. He believes that the power of human evolution is from helping to each other and love. That’s the same to the essence of Gandhi’s deeds. Only LOVE can sacrifice oneself and bring happiness to all others. The separation of Tibet, Pakistan, or my lovely India or China is temporal. As time goes by, God will judge. People must get to know more about each other and learn more about love. We must help each other to survive on this tough environment, Earth. This world eventually will be into a one big family. Nations shall be a meaningless thing on earth. Revenge only brings revenge. God knows if He must stop us from killing each other with a final judge. We are all the same. Just do a warm and right thing before we can!
With LOVE, Warm regards from Taiwan