En algún lugar de La Habana, distrito Centro (Cuba)

chymyno, on October 25, 2007, said:

IMPRESIONANTES LOGROS DE LA REVOLUCION SOCIALISTA,QUE HERMOSA VISTA!,QUE HERMOSO PAISAJE!

draken, on April 4, said:

Por favor no convirtamos a Panoramio en un foro de discusión política. Dejemos que las fotos hablen por si solas.

VKeith, on April 11, said:

Very thought provoking photo. It seems fairly obvious why it provokes political comments. I have no problems with them. They help me to understand how people feel.

Druppels, on April 15, said:

Again: I can show you areas of bangladesh, san salvador or bangkok where the situation is even worse.

This being a picture-sharing website, these pictures are dropped here without explanation, left to your own interpretation. As much as they "provoke political comments" I don't think this is the best place to have political discussions.

I'm sure you can find another place on the internet where you can exchange and interpret "thought provoking photos", where you can freely discuss politics so that everyone can join in insteda of having these discussions next to some obscure picture.

And Vkeith: don't claim you're defending this course of action the name of free speech. Meanwhile, you're trying to silence other users...

VKeith, on April 15, said:

Or the contrary, my friend! I only ask why he is so inconsistent. He claims a picture is worth 1000 words and yet, adds words. This makes no sense, nor does your previous comment to the photographer. All these pictures are justifiable.

This one, to which you attach your comment, is completely appropriate to my mind.

VKeith, on April 15, said:

Druppels, By the way, there is NO course of action. Only many notes all over this site where certain users jump in, beg for no political comments, then leave. In most cases they have to scroll through those comments in order to read them, rather than simply looking at the picture. So, explain this.

For example "Por favor no convirtamos a Panoramio en un foro de discusión política. Dejemos que las fotos hablen por si solas."

Is addition, Mr. Draken and his friend have started this discussion several times in the Forum. There was no agreement toward any 'action'. I have discussed my point of view there and I invite you to do so as well.

Druppels, on April 15, said:

VKeith, I've been a quiet reader on this website and as much as you hate it, I find draken to be very consistent in his comments.

I will never question the posting of pictures. Off course this picture is justifiable! I am bothered by the way this picture (and others) is used to start a political discussion.

Now you might defend yourself with your freedom of speech retorics but how brave are you, shouting your slogans on some obscure page instead of having a real discussion on a real discussion forum?

VKeith, on April 15, said:

Again, I invite you to the forum area on this topic.

yaser18, on April 15, said:

me apuesto la cabeza que ahi no vive nadie del govierno, puro negrito muerto de hambre del pueblo,pa'ellos si que no hay.

Druppels, on April 15, said:

Again, I invite you and others to have political discussions on a political forum. Don't you see the irony in that?

There is, off course, a course of action. In all conflicts on Panoramio there are people who are here for the conflict only. They systematically go form one picture to another to start discussions and to provoke people. Quite frankly, I question if those people are on the right website.

You simply CANNOT have a serious discussion on this website because it's designed to suit other purposes, because the discussions are indeed fragmentated and because all you hear on this website are the loudmouths shouting at each other instead of reasoning.

yaser18, on April 15, said:

asere que vola con esa esa muela? Y ti que te molesta que digan la verdad?tu estas sospechoso.respeta que yo naci a dos cuadras de ahi.

jotuel, on April 15, said:

Yaser18 yo soy de Maloja y Estrella.Todo es una ruina por alla,cloacas y alcantarillas rotas a las dos manos.Todo apuntalao.Y quien c..del govierno va a vivir ahi.Pa ellos esta Miramar.

Druppels, on April 15, said:

Yaser18, I didn't understand everything you said. All I get is that you were born 2 blocks from here and that you want me to leave these people alone because they are telling the truth. Am I right?

Whether or not they are telling the truth doesn't matter! What will it change that you and others continue to shout out your frustrations on this website? All you are doing is bothering people that didn't come here to have political issues thrown in their faces.

yaser18, on April 15, said:

yotuel tu conoces al tato de maloja hermano de yosy que se vino en balsa,yo soy el primo.

jotuel, on April 15, said:

yaser 18 compadre alabao!!escaparon del infiernito.felicidades.yo me vine en el 96 a dios gracias no por balsa.tengo un socio que se ahogo tratando de librarla.

malecon88, on April 15, said:

esta foto es la cuba que al govierno y las agencias de viaje no quieren mostrar.

Maria-Elena, on April 18, said:

Se parece a Harlem

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Con la diferencia que en Harlem están abandonados por propietarios privados porque no se necesitan, y en Cuba estas ruinas pertenecientes al gobierno (como todo) estan habitadas por la escasez de vivienda.

Maria-Elena, on April 18, said:

En Harlem y en muchisimos otros lugares hay cientos de casas y edificios habitados que estan en malas condiciones porque no se pueden dar el lujo de vivir en ningun otro lugar.

Aqui hay una seleccion de lugares para el que le interese el tema.

En Cuba nadie duerme en la calle, lo cual es una exception a la regla !

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Que bueno que Cuba, siendo el primer pais socialista de América con 50 años de revolución, está a estas alturas mejor que todos esos países. Esta foto debe ser una aberración.

VKeith, on April 18, said:

A menudo, los edificios de apartamentos en Harlem, y otras ciudades del norte, han sido abandonados por los propietarios privados ya que la factura de calefacción son más que la recopilación de alquiler. Hay leyes que los propietarios deben proporcionar calor en invierno. Alquiler cantidades están controladas por la ciudad. Propietarios de sólo dejar de pagar impuestos sobre ellos. Luego de que se conviertan en propiedad del Gobierno de la Ciudad. La ciudad no es buena en la gestión de la propiedad así que tienen muchos programas para las personas a cargo de los edificios y ponerlos de nuevo en el impuesto sobre los papeles. En la década de 1980 hubo 400000 edificios abandonados en la ciudad de Nueva York. Creo que puede ser un poco mejor ahora. Harlem ha visto mucho renovación por el sector privado. Esta diferencia es fundamental desde el sur.

eva ortiz, on April 18, said:

Amiga Marie Elena y demas les digo mi experiencia en NY.Aqui tu pones un puesto de venta de mani y con tu trabajo puedes alimentar bien a tu familia y rentar en cualquier lugar y sin embargo tengo familia en Cuba que en 40 anos no pudieron salir de lugares como el que muestra la foto o peores a pesar que trabajaron muy duro toda su vida.Pero bueno, la foto es de Cuba y debe haber un lugar con fotos de NY, donde les contare mas sobre mis vivencias en la gran manzana ,algunas bien divertidas. Me imagino que personas que han vivido cerca de la zona como Yaser18, Yotuel y otros querran dar su opinion del barrio.Saludos cordiales a todos.

VKeith, on April 18, said:

PS: The heating oil costs about the same as gasoline.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Y hasta Bill Clinton mudó su sede de oficinas a Harlem. Todo progresa. Bueno, casi todo.

Maria-Elena, on April 18, said:

Ayunden a eliminar los problemas, que existen en todas partes, no solo en la Habana.

A los que continuamente critican y no aportan nada positivo, pueden empezar por donar a los mas necesitados

Donen bastante que son muchos:

The total number of homeless persons reported on a single night in January 2006 was 759,101. At this point in time, more than half of the nation’s homeless population (56 percent or nearly 428,000 persons) were sheltered, while 44 percent (331,100 persons) were unsheltered.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Pero Maria Elena, aqui estamos hablando de Cuba. Por favor, no comparemos, ya sabemos que de acuerdo con la línea oficial, Cuba es un éxito. Lo que nos preguntamos es, qué significan entonces todas estas fotos de atraso y miseria?

eva ortiz, on April 18, said:

Juan y no solo eso en harlem hay unos restaurantes de comida soul food riquisimos.Tiene museos.Esta el hispanic harlem donde esta el museo del barrio con tantas obras de arte.Lo que pasa que la gente tienen aquella vision de las peliculas del 70.NY es una de las ciudades mas seguras de los Estados Unidos.Pero bueno me extiendo de nuevo y aqui de lo que se trata es de comentar sobre ese barrio de Los Sitios que nos muestra la foto.Yo la pongo como de best of panoramio en honor a todos los que han vivido por tanto tiempo ahi.saludos.

mari11, on April 18, said:

I really beleive this is to much, this guy DRAKEN, HANS, NOW DRUPPELS, wich by the way they all could be one person...are constantly demanding us to basicly Shut up. AREN'T WE IN A FREE AND DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY?? WHAT IS THEIR PROBLEM??? I THINK IS TIME TO SEND A MASSIVE COMPLAINT TO GOOGLE EARTH.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Mari y demás, calma o terminarán expulsados. Panoramio no es una democracia.

mari11, on April 18, said:

Have anyone read the Terms or Policies in Panoramio?

I have not seen anything that says that political discussions are not allowed, if someone has , please post it.

Altough nobody provoke any political discussion,only comments .

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Read the recent forums. Although the complainants were officially not suported by Panoramio, users were removed without explanation. Like it or not, we are at the mercy of this website.

mari11, on April 18, said:

Druppels,

You do not understand ,my dear.

CUBA LIBRE, has nothing to do with SAN SALVADOR, BANGLADESH, BANGKOK, TIBET, GUATEMALA, OR wich ever undeveloped country you want to compare Cuba with.

CUBA LIBRE was very well developed , before EL USURPADOR FIDEL CASTRO INVADED CUBA WITH THIS CANCER THAT WE CAN NOT GET RID OF IT.

Anything USA put in the market, CUBA HAD IT THE SAME DAY OR THE NEXT DAY, OR EVEN BEFORE! While this countries are suffering poverty for hundreds of years , because of their corrupted Goverments, wich is the same thing what CUBA is going trhough today and for all these years.

THIS IS WHY, WE SEE THE DISASTER WE SEE TODAY, A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE ON THIS PICTURE.

VKeith, on April 18, said:

Political discussion still okay, I think. Copyright infringement will get you booted. I had a battle royal with Druppels a couple of days ago. Now he has deleted most of his comments. I would simply ignore all three of them on this issue. That is what I intend to do unless they again try to sway public opinion on the matter in the forum. I have old photos of some decrepit areas of NYC but they are old and I have to scan them. It will be along time from now before I do that. I imagine there is this misfortune everywhere if one knows where to look.

eva ortiz, on April 18, said:

juan yo soy de la opinion que cualquier trabajo que se haga debe hacerse bien.por lo menos utilizando el sentido comun.si tu pintas trata de no dejar ver las huellas de la mano.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Mari is right. I was shocked to find we had car phones in Cuba in 1952!

eva ortiz, on April 18, said:

si hay un lugar en el mundo del que muchos demagogos deberian aprender es de la propia cuba.el teque y la demagogia nunca funciono.al menor chance que tienen se van del pais (avion,balsa,caballo_)la gente no escucha propaganda por que aburre y la ve falsa.yo les pido a todos los mutantes que utilizen un poco mas de sicologia para tratar de pasar el mensaje que quieran.

VKeith, on April 18, said:

"sicologia"? Another translation, please?

mari11, on April 18, said:

Eva,

Pero es que toda al vida nosotros los Cubanos tenemos que estar callados!

Y tambien ahora en un simple web-site the fotos..OYE le ronca el MANGO!

mari11, on April 18, said:

Lo que deberiamos unir todas esos cerebros inteligentes y comenzar un Web-nosotors y proponerselos a GOOGLE . De esta forma los 3 caballeros que se queden con su web. Ahorita me botan, tambien. chao

mari11, on April 18, said:

juansinmiedo, voy a buscar una informacion de Cuba que tengo antes que me corten el agua y la luz como a la NANA, para que veas todo lo que surgio en CUBA , es impresionante. Las novelas inclusive comenzaron en CUBA, no Mexico , ni Venezuela, ni Brazil,etc.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

sicologia=psicologia=psychology

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

A todos, VKeith es Virginia, es estadounidense y hace el esfuerzo por entendernos. Está en contra de la represión que se nos está haciendo. Por favor dénle la bienvenida y tratemos de hablar un poquito menos "cubano" para que nos entienda! :-)

VKeith, on April 18, said:

A hah! Are you saying "speak English"? ;)

mari11, on April 18, said:

YES YOU ARE RIGHT. I'm so sorry VKeith, I apologize for not writing in English. When ever this happenend again, just shout at us ""HEY PEOLPE VKesith HERE" and we will start again. We Cubans think , every one understands Spanish.

Thank you for your good comments.

VKeith, on April 18, said:

No worries, I am trying to be better with Espaniol. I use the online translator. It's okay either way.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

Hey, let's not go crazy here!:-)

Unfortunately, a lot of posters came over in their 30s and 40s and cannot express themselves very well in English. But the overriding feeling is that we cannot talk about our land and what we went through in a foreign language. But you're doing great, just give a holler about anything you don't understand and I'll bring you up to speed. Thanks for the support.

juansinmiedo, on April 18, said:

And may I add, feel free to comment in English, we'll make an effort ;-) KIDDING! Thanks for putting up with the crazy Cubans!

VKeith, on April 18, said:

Ha ha. We are ALL a bit crazy. Some more willing to admit it than others. All good!

VKeith, on April 18, said:

I am interested in the story of a guy like him. it is amazing and so impressive.

eva ortiz, on April 18, said:

un caluroso saludo a virginia.vi sus fotos y son buenisimas.bienvenida!!!