A 38 / 2013/09/21 14:42:05

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Rumlin on October 19, 2013

Doctors - it's part of society. Can surely to say what decision was made by the doctors in Nazi Germany.

Syborgh on October 19, 2013

Oh, yes there it is again! What sort of comparison is that! I'm speaking of the right of citizens to end their own life, or to ask someone else to help them without fear of being locked away as a criminal. That is something completely different, Aleks.

Rumlin on October 21, 2013

Evidence that he himself wanted this? Maybe the doctor was a killer. Who was hired by relatives of a deceased patient.

Syborgh on October 21, 2013

I stop this conversation because you simplify a complex problem and key issue in an unacceptable way. Not to say that you are a terrible simplificateur (terrible simplifier; Flachdenker).

Rumlin on October 23, 2013

Nothing is impossible.

Capital is said by a Quarterly Reviewer to fly turbulence and strife, and to be timid, which is very true; but this is very incompletely stating the question. Capital eschews no profit, or very small profit, just as Nature was formerly said to abhor a vacuum. With adequate profit, capital is very bold. A certain 10 per cent. will ensure its employment anywhere; 20 per cent. certain will produce eagerness; 50 per cent., positive audacity; 100 per cent. will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 per cent., and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run, even to the chance of its owner being hanged. If turbulence and strife will bring a profit, it will freely encourage both. Smuggling and the slave-trade have amply proved all that is here stated.‖ (T. J. Dunning, l. c., pp. 35, 36.)

Syborgh on October 23, 2013

T.J. Dunning, pre-1923 author of this political-economic pamphlet on 'Labour, Capital, individual Appropriation and Security', called Trades Unions and Strikes; Their Philosophy and Intention sweeps a lot on one big heap in this chosen citation. But ethical matters like euthanasia or assisted suicide are not among them.

You made it yourself easy, Aleks; misplaced quoting of an author who probably never thought about the problem of euthanasia or assisted suicide for one minute in his whole life, doesn't relieve you from the obligation to use your own brains.

You try to shuffle the hot potato on the plate of Capitalism or Fascism. But that is exactly what I mean by oversimplifying the matter or terrible simplification. And Historical materialism is not the answer to every ethical problem in human society, how much marxists would like it to be so straight & easy.

It is not the exclusive right of capitalism, nor (neo-)liberalism, not even humanism, to advocate thinking about the question; it is a matter of humanity to think and re-think it in a serious and not-simplistic way. That is not an easy task.

If you are not willing, or capable, to step outside of your anti-capitalist and anti-fascist pre-occupation, your theoretical thinking paterns, resulting in simplistic and popular platitudes, we better stop this exercise.

I like our contacts anyway. :)

Regards, - Fried, freethinker

Some reading exercise:

Rumlin on October 23, 2013

This is a big topic. Why do you exclude the human factor? Such laws - it is a way to legalize murder. And there will always be criminals who will use this loophole in the law.

Syborgh on October 23, 2013

No state, no law, no police, no army can protect people against 'criminals' or 'criminal' deeds. There will always be people who kill others; statistics show that most of the time that will be family members.

Remember - and this is major - it is the (constitutional) State itself who, by law, decides what is criminal or not. One day you are not a criminal, the other day you are! just because the Law says so, just because it changed in that sense from one day to another.

There is no 'criminal' act outside the human law. Even if that law is culpable itself. So 'criminal' is not a usefull term in ethical debates.

Rumlin on November 26, 2013

On the question of the cost of electricity. RIA infographic published today - How to pay for electricity in different countries. They argue that in Ukraine the lowest cost electricity in Europe.

7,66-times cheaper than in the Netherlands.

Syborgh on November 26, 2013

I'm not surprized.. we pay loads of money for our own gas because the government prefers to use it as an export-product and we have to pay the full prize. The State of the Netherlands is a thief of the own population. Prizes are never absolute, they depend on the emotions of the (more or less free) market. Remember your Marx! :)

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  • Uploaded on September 29, 2013
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